T.T.: To begin with, how did you happen to get involved with the Billy Jack movies? Or with Tom Laughlin?

Han: Well, the Chamber of Commerce of Pacific Palisades asked me to march In the July 4th, 1969, Independence Day parade. I had a demonstration at the beauty contest there in the public park; Tom Laughlin happened to be among, the 1000 or so spectators. He contacted me later, and I began instruction for him about twice a week at his home.

T.T.: He seems to be a very tough, determined young man.

Han: Tom has been acting for twenty or so years doing mostly small parts and achieving no major successes. Nevertheless he has always had high hopes. He's very ambitious Individual, and he has guts. The Billy Jack movies were very successful and made him famous. But he deserved it.

T.T.: Do you have any Idea how much those pictures grossed In total?

Han: About $60,000,000.00 so far and, of course, they're still pulling in crowds. Tom Laughlin is very popular.

T.T.: How does he compare in popularity with, say, Bruce Lee? Do you know?

Han: It is my understanding that Bruce Lee's movies have grossed less than $12,000,000.00, about a fifth of the total take in the Billy Jack series. Bruce Lee's movies became known relatively quickly when several of them came out during a short period of time. And they all featured a proliferation of fighting scenes, which appealed to many younger people.

T.T.: That brings up a point I wanted to get into. Did you have any particular problems staging the fighting scenes In Billy Jack?

Han: Yes, we did. Both technical and professional problems. It was my job to see that the fighting scenes reproduced on the screen were as realistic as possible while losing no more than necessary of the various movements and techniques. To do this correctly - or as I wanted it done would have required many cameras and continuous shifting from one to another to keep the best angles on each technique. But, of course, budgetary constraints ruled much of this out. Producers were looking at costs, and from their point of view they were right; we simply had to reach an accommodation. The second problem area was really a clash of professionalism: In the first movie I knew very little about the proper placement of cameras and angles for shots. But I did know about the fighting scenes. In my experience the movement must always change with action, and I wanted to place the cameras so as to catch each technique the best possible, and to seque into the next technique. Well, the cameramen are also professionals and insisted on their own camera techniques. Sympathize with their feelings but my only motive was the best fighting scenes possible.

T.T.: Can you explain what makes a good fighting scene?

Han: The first Billy Jack movie came out very well in the fighting scenes, but I was trying to. Get a better display of the technique. I wanted to show how the opponent attacks, how movements are executed and completed; how avoided, dodged and blocked; reactions, striking points people getting hit - and the result of getting hit. I wanted to show each of these movements sequentially organized. The results were short of my, expectations which is why I would like to make a movie myself. I do feel confident that the first Billy Jack movie was better than any other martial art picture had been, but the connection of so sequences could have been better. In each sequence I was trying to show the details and connections of each action possibly they think I was simply a big talker.

T.T.: Don't you think they, should have, heeded your advice on the, fighting scenes? After all, you, was the professional.

Han: I was the technical adviser actually, although I was in a couple of scenes in the first movie and several scenes in the second. I'm not expert in direction or camera angles, but naturally I feel that several sequences could have been improved if they had listened to my suggestions. The first movie was better than the second with regard to the fighting scenes was. For example, in the fight in the park, the combination of slow and normal speeds was very well done and clearly demonstrated technique which have been lost if the whole thing had been shot at normal speeds. The second movie did not attempt these techniques, and for that reason I was very disappointed in it. In "The Trial of Billy Jack" there was 8 fighting scene at a party in which both you and Tom take off your shoes. I think some, viewers were amused at this wondering not only why it was done but also speculating that in a real situation there would be no time to remove your shoes. Would you like to explain?

Han: Well, there were two reasons we decided to do that. First, it is almost impossible to control techniques while wearing boots, as they are quite heavy. And they have pointed toes. Taken together this. Constituted a real danger to the actors, which we eliminated as you noted. But second, this was the first time in movie history that this was done, fighters removing their footgear and fighting with their bare feet. I'm sure it provided some stimulation to the audience. Sure, in a real fight you probably would not have occasion to remove your shoes but this is show business, and you've got to allow us some license.

T.T.: Was that your Idea about the different levels of man - striking back with fists, with words, or at the highest level, with understanding. I think many people missed the point of that.

Han: No, it wasn't my idea; it was the writer's. I have not studied Indian history and culture and am not familiar enough with these subjects to discuss them.

T.T.: What do you think about TaeKwon-Do having become recognized by the A.A.U. About TaeKwon-Do having found a place In the Olympics?

Han: I'm not sure that is a good idea. In the first place TaeKwon-Do is a martial art rather than a sport: it involved elements of philosophy, self-discipline and self-education. The A.A.U.'s action may blur this distinction. Emphasis will be placed on techniques which receive points in Olympic tournaments: the "points" will become more important and the "art" less so. It may very well stunt the growth of a martial art, which has flourished for thousands of years.

T.T.: How do you view the basic concepts of the original martial art? What do they mean to you?

Han: They are relatively simple. They include resisting the temptations that beset us from waking in the morning until retirement at night. It means constantly setting an example by your own actions, especially If you are an Instructor. It means not being proud of yourself or showing off your abilities exercising self disciplines, In other words. Many people - and not only Koreans - mistake the tenets of this philosophy. They fall to remember that the most important thing is demonstrating the spirit of the martial art.

T.T.: There is another side, to the "Moo-Do", or martial art. We know how you feel about the art, or "Do". When does the "Moo" or fighting come in?

Han: When your. Life is at stake or threatened then you would use it. Or to defend your property as well as to help and protect weakness. But many people do not subscribe to or obey this dictum. It is abused all over the country.

T.T.: What's happening in the United States now with regard to the martial art?

Han: Many different styles and stylists are gathering In the U.S. not only because this is one of the biggest countries in the world but because it is the most financially settled. And if a man can make a success here, he is at the apex of a profession. America is the stage of the world; if you can do a good job here you are welcome anywhere. Then too, the U.S. is not so limited with regard, to style; all styles are present and encouraged. And there is the freedom for any stylist to broaden his practice, to include the best from other styles. For example, as a Korean, don't only concentrate on ancient Korean methods but try to include whatever suits me from the other martial arts and discard what I dislike from Korean methods. The martial art is not and cannot be a mathematical formula. Succeeding generations improve and reshape the art continuously, and the variety of styles we enjoy in this country only enhances the process of improvement in each style.

T.T.: What are the good and bad points about the traditional methods of instruction?

Han: Bad? Too much commercialism. Instructors concentrating only on making money. Of course, I realize that they have to eat, but they're principal consideration should be the return of equal value for the fees they receive from students.

T.T.: I agree with you. What else?

Han: A good point is the recognition of the virtue in other styles. No particular martial art has a monopoly on good technique or philosophical wisdom. Recognizing the value of different aspects. of other styles is extremely important.

T.T.: Can you give us an example?

Han: Well, I don't know too much about any other style than Hapkido. But, as an example, Hapkido has a good technique called "popoksul" (method of capture), another called "yusool" (throwing), and one called "colchulsu" (twisting joint). We use quite a few hand techniques but very few "tagyuksul" or striking techniques.

T.T.: Then you believe this is Hapkido's failing?

Han: Yes. We used striking techniques at one time but gradually abandoned them in favor of kicking techniques. We now lack a balanced defense; I personally prefer to concentrate equally on hands and feet.

T.T.: We have two hands and two feet Do you think that It destroys the balance of the body to emphasize the use of either set of limbs?

Han: I think it depends on the instructor. There are many different opinions and methods of teaching. I do, however, feel that we should make effective use of hand techniques - such as tagyuksul.

T.T.: Lately, It seems, the martial arts have become big business: the tournaments are conducted like three ring circuses, poor attitudes by contestants are wantonly displayed, the whole conceptual framework of the martial arts seems to be In jeopardy. Or do you agree?

Han: I don't think that is a good development. But some people like that sort of display and they are perfectly entitled to attend them. This is a capitalist country; if some smart people want to make money that way, there is no way to stop them. And I wouldn't care to try. I teach my own way. I like to teach the tradition, the culture and the philosophy. Over a period of time people will understand what is what.

T.T.: Do you think people have more Interest In the tournament sport aspect of the martial art than in the spiritual aspect?

Han: Very definitely. I think it is very difficult to teach the martial art spirit in the U.S. You can teach it generally to the students but making the point to a large audience is next to impossible. And it will take a long time to make the point by word of mouth. If an instructor can make enough to live on, he should be satisfied. Instruction in the spirit of the martial art is certainly deteriorating. But I'm not concerned with that. If I finish my own responsibilities will be satisfied; I'm not trying to teach the world only make a quality job of those I do teach.

T.T.: Competition Is Instinctive to the human being. If an Instructor wishes to establish his fighting or teaching skills, what method would you suggest?

Han: The participation by his students - those having an interest and a talent for fighting - in full contact tournaments is certainly one way. This would prove the instructor's abilities.

T.T.: In the original martial art concepts, It is unnecessary to prove anything. Has this changed?

Han: My point is that to teach this martial art, sometimes it really is necessary to prove something. If you do not, students will not join your school, they will not believe you, and they won't learn. Once in a while you do need to prove something through demonstrations, movies or even sending a few students to tournaments. I don't think that this is bad.

T.T.: The history. of the martial arts In the U.S. is very short. Would you say that. Americans are simply not geared to this type of philosophy?

Han: Generally yes, but many of them are.. There are many American instructors who are more cognizant of the true Oriental philosophy than many Orientals are. They study it harder and work more diligently to understand and practice it as it should be. While many Oriental instructors will smoke in the gym without changing their uniforms, talk too big and loud and don't recognize their positions. On the other hand, Americans - even low ranking black belts - will put everything they've got into their instruction, work out for hours with students and do their best to teach the physical and mental aspects of the arts as well as the technical side.

T.T.: Would you care to point out how philosophical and spiritual aspects of the martial art can best be developed In this country?

Han: Instructors in every dojang must teach by example, by their own behavior, as well as through speeches and exhibitions. If they conduct impressive lessons, students will talk them up to friends and neighbors, and the word will get around. I believe that word of mouth is the most dependable route to making the truth known. I have known quite a few instructors who became successful in this way. And I don't mean financially successful but in the sense that they established themselves by the quality of their instruction. They demonstrated their abilities and continue to teach their students regardless of their age. I respect them a lot.

T.T.: Many students wonder why higher ranking instructors , do not fight in tournaments. How would you explain this?

Han: The responsibility of high ranking belts (6th to 8th degree black belts) is not competition, but the promotion of the martial arts. They do not accomplish this by participating, in tournaments and taking the money and prizes away from lower ranking black. belts. There is no glory in that and no sense in it. And, for example, if they would. lose a fight in a tournament due to poor refereeing or simply the, difference in styles or the politics of the judges (which occurs frequently at tournaments) it would damage their credibility or ability to teach. But there is no offsetting possible gain. People who feel that higher-ranking belts should fight in tournaments are only establishing their own ignorance, their own lack of discipline. And there is another thing I would like to say. There is often some discord over young people, say under thirty, who hold 7th degree black belts or higher, in extreme cases 10th degree black belts. People, who claim these ranks for themselves, whether American, Japanese, Korean or Chinese are simply crazy over the promotion and usually unconcerned with the art. They don't even know how high heaven is; in other words, they don't know their abilities, they simply want the physical, evidence of rank. But the rest. of us should not be concerned; we should simply do the best we can with our own business.

T.T.: Physically, Arnericans are considered larger than most Orientals. Do you think this gives them a competitive edge?

Han: Well, they are the indisputably larger, but size is not everything with the martial arts; in fact, It is not even the most important factor. The spiritual aspects outweigh the physical. The martial art fight is not a power test but more a contest of wills: who has the tougher spirit as well as who has the greatest speed, the best technique. In today's no contact tournaments, the competition is more a game than a fight. In real fighting a disciplined spirit will be required more than anything else.